Fat activists are not perfect
There’s been quite a bit of drama going on amongst the fat blogs lately, and thanks to C I finally figured out what the commotion was all about today. I’m not going to link to any of it because, hey, you probably already know what’s going on, and if you don’t that’s less drama in your life. And do you really need more drama? No I think you do not.
Here’s the thing, though, and it’s something that I think a lot of us forget sometimes in our activism. The thing is, no fat activist is perfect. None of us. I know I like to say I’m never wrong, but that’s just because I was I’m never wrong… no, wait, because I was raised to be stubborn.
So let’s kvetch, because it’s cathartic. I’ll tell you some things I’ve done as a fat activist that may not have been so rad, and you’re welcome to confess some things to me you may have done. Because hey, maybe if we can admit some of the crappy stuff we’ve all taken part in, we’ll see how imperfect all of us are. Perfection is boring, yo.
So let’s see. I’m a member of this livejournal community for fat fashion - you probably know what it is, but if you don’t, that’s cool. Last year there was a whole lot of drama about one individual who may have been at a different place in fat acceptance than I was, and I sorta made a livejournal icon poking fun at her and what I labeled her ignorance. While it may have been a funny icon, it was a really mean, snarky thing to do. That sucks.
What else? Hmm… I went to the PCA conference last year and I only went to (!) two panels - mine and one other. For all my talk about supporting my community, I really flaked out when a great opportunity came up. That was not rad.
You want something more recent? Okay. I have some really brilliant, well-meaning, totally body positive friends in the program I’m in. Recently, some of them have been making some disparaging comments about themselves, specifically re: weight. And because sometimes? I just get so tired of being The Fat Feminist among the grad students here? I didn’t say anything. I may even have given them
an affirming “hmmm” because I didn’t want to hurt their feelings. What the hell kind of activist does that make me, if I’m too afraid to call people on their sizeism and fatphobia because it might offend them?
Anyhow, yeah, I’ve had my (more than fair) share of mistakes in my role as fat activist. Am I the only one?
(Anonymous commenting is totally an option, peeps - just make up a name if you don’t feel like “going public.”)
Just a reminder - this is for us to discuss how we’re *not* perfect. As such, I’m going to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and not call anyone a troll unless it’s trolling beyond a shadow of a doubt. This policy will be forcibly applied via moderation, if necessary. Because, as above - nobody’s perfect, but just because someone has difficulty with a part of fat lib doesn’t make them a “troll.”
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The criticisms of my students would serve as a good warning to visitors of Seeworthy: she talks too fast, she's too hard on us, she assigns too much work, and you have to be a dyke to get a good grade.
In other words, I'm a big, fat, queer, feminist meanie, and I am totally out to get you. Graaagh!
aria star is a troll, not someone on any kind of journey to body acceptance, i really dont think you can count that snarky lj icon against yourself
While it may have been a funny icon, it was a really mean, snarky thing to do.
But it was SO FUNNY.
I guess in that context my big sin would be having no sympathy whatsoever for trolls, esp. proana trolls on that community and concern trolls on SP. Oh, I also get instantly defensive when someone with a male name (who isn’t Paul) makes a comment at SP, because they’re likelier to be posting just to be an asshole. I probably should be all about educating them and being open to them and using them as a teachable moment, but I don’t care. Either I delete them or we all laugh at them, and when they flounce I feel triumphant rather than worrying that I soured someone on FA.
Hi, this is “Hypersurfaces”, who friended you on Livejournal, and I realize this is somewhat off-topic, but I wanted to get your opinion because I like what you write.
I really appreciate what you do. You do good things, and you’re on the way to doing more good things. Don’t be too hard on yourself.
It is hard for me to decide whether to take up a “fat activist” stance or not. I’m a happy feminist, a happy atheist, a happy liberal, a happy gay rights activist, a happy choice activist, happy child-free person…
But, it would be hard to call myself a fat activist. I don’t want anyone to ever face shame about their bodies, or feel the pressure to change due to cultural influence. Nobody should be discriminated against (either actively or passively) due to their size, gender, race, sexuality, etc.
But, the reason I would find it hard to call myself a fat activist, I think, is because a large part of the fat activist community find themselves indestructible.
African Americans know that they’re more prone to Sickle Cell. Many Jewish communities know that they are more prone to Tay-Sachs.
I don’t know why fat activists don’t acknowledge the accepted idea adipose tissue excretes estrogen, which may in turn make some people prone to certain cancers. That doesn’t mean that people should stop being fat, or that doctors should tell patients to lose weight, or that doctors should not consider all causes of problems instead of weight, or that all fat people will get cancer. But, I keep reading many fat activists seeming to see themselves as invincible. I keep seeing fat activists deny accepted science. And, as a scientist, I can’t accept that.
Can you help me resolve this? I want to be accepting enough of everyone, but I still have problems with this, and I wish to understand more.
Sheana,
I really love reading your blog and I really really applaud you for this post. Yes it has been a bit snarky in the fat positive blogosphere — I think it might have something to do with seasonal changes. People fight more during the Spring and Autumn. But for whatever reason I think it’s great that you found such a nice way to address the situation and I think it is really awesome that you chose to “out” yourself (forgive me!) and admit ways that you have been snarky yourself.
You rock!
I keep seeing fat activists deny accepted science.
That’s the problem. It’s accepted science, not proven science. It was accepted for hundreds of years that black people couldn’t see in the dark and didn’t have the mental capacity that white people have. Did that make it right? Hell no.
The problem with studies such as what you’re talking about is that one study will say one thing and the very next one will come up with totally different answers. But fatophobia is so prevalent that the only science the institution is willing to accept is that fat kills. But if someone tries to say any different, they put their blinders on, stick their fingers in their ears and chant “La la la la I can’t hear you!!”
It’s not that we think ourselves indestructible, it’s that we know we’re any different than anybody else aside from the fact that we happen to be fat. Being fat doesn’t make us bad people. It doesn’t mean that we’re killing ourselves. It doesn’t mean that we sit around watching tv all day and eating bon-bons.
Now if I happen to be a bitch AND be fat, then fine, call me a bitch. But being fat doesn’t MAKE me a bitch.
And, obviously, there are a lot of bitches out there, or we wouldn’t have this problem with being snarky to each other.
But me? I don’t necessarily think being a bitch is a bad thing.
Thanks, all! Great to see some neat feedback on this one.
And Hypersurgaces, I think nuckingfutz pretty much said a lot of what I would have said.
I think what most fat activists would argue with is that, okay, even if we say that fat people have a higher likelihood of getting such-and-such affliction, that doesn’t mean that fatness *causes* the problem. Blackness isn’t the *cause* of Sickle Cell, Jewishness doesn’t *cause* Tay-Sachs, and there hasn’t been any research which definitively proves that fatness *causes* much of anything - except, of course, a person to be fat.
As far as invincibility, I don’t know many of us who would consider ourselves invincible, but I think a common sentiment is that we also don’t consider ourselves more likely to kick the bucket just because we’re fat.
There are constantly new studies debunking the myth that fat = unhealthy. If you want to read what someone who knows more about the science than me has to say, I definitely recommend http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/ - Sandy Swarcz is always posting about the science of obesity.
And lastly, I’m sure you know as a feminist and a scientist that just because we call something “science” doesn’t make it objective - there’s plenty that can be overlooked, forgotten or left out, and interpretation is informed by context.
So, uh, yeah. And I would venture to say that even if you may disagree with some aspect of fat activism, that doesn’t mean you can’t be one type of fat activists. Folks in the movement believe all kinds of things, and you’ll find that just as in feminist movements there are radical fat lib activists and people on a somewhat more conservative end of the spectrum. But like (I think?) the Rotund has said recently, the movement needs as many people as are willing to fight for acceptance, respect and an end to discrimination as we can get. And if you agree that fat people should be treated with respect and shouldn’t be discriminated against, then I’d venture to say that you’re at least some brand of a size acceptance activist.
Yeah, I agree with a lot of what you’re saying.
I can’t make myself read Sandy Szwarc’s blog though, because I know that in the past she defended methyl mercury emissions from coal companies, phthalates in kids’ toys (banned in the U.K., but only not banned here because the plastics companies have too much influence), said there was no threat to humans from mad cow disease…I just can’t get over any of that and take her seriously.
Not that there aren’t quite a few people out there who put out articles that don’t have that sketchy background, and I appreciate reading from them instead.
I am worried though that if I tried to join the circle, my questioning would lead to a lot of hostility against me that I don’t think I’d be able to handle well. Not to offend anyone, and this doesn’t refer to you at all, but some bloggers in the circle are a pretty mean bunch to newbies and questioning skeptics. That minority often scares me away from the majority.
I think I’ll just lurk more for now.
I believe fat people definitely should be treated with respect, given the same medical care as thin people, and not be discriminated against for jobs, relationships, etc. But I get stuck at the stage where I think it’s ok for other people to be comfortable with being fat while I’m not comfortable with being fat myself.
Hypersurfaces, you should be aware that your questions are basically the hallmark of a type of troll called a concern troll. (I’m going to assume you haven’t heard of these, not because I want to insult your intelligence, but because I genuinely hope they are not as common elsewhere as they are in the fatosphere.) The idea with a concern troll is that they sow dissent by saying “well, I kind of agree with you, but I’m just worried about this and that.” So, “I do agree that we shouldn’t discriminate against people for being fat, but I’m concerned about how delusional you are.” Alternately, “I do think that fat people should be treated equally, but I’m worried about your health.” The effect is a) to marginalize the important points by brushing them off (hi, the fact that fat people ARE discriminated against IS actually the main idea) and directing the focus to a minor issue and b) to incite doubt and disagreement. We get a LOT of them and the bigger blogs are very intolerant of anything that smacks of concern trolling, because they’re insulting, plus the ensuing kerfuffle takes up a lot of our resources and we’re not getting paid for this.
If you don’t want to be treated poorly, you should definitely avoid showing up raw and saying “I believe in body autonomy and everything but seriously why are you people so dumb and delusional that you don’t understand that fat will kill you.” Not that I think you would say it in those words, but we’ve heard every possible variation (including yours above), and that’s basically what they come down to. I think your decision to lurk for a while is very wise, because questions like yours are being answered piecemeal on fat blogs every day; part of the reason that people get irked at concern trolling is that the trolls tend to demand that we drop everything and explain something that they could figure out for themselves if they read a bit. Once you’ve lurked, if you still have questions, ask yourself whether they boil down to “how come you’re not as smart and informed as me.” If you’re asking them out of genuine curiosity and respect, and you’ve already watched a few trolls come and go so you know how they operate, I can’t see why anyone would yell at you. If you’re not, well, why bother?
Oh wicked, Sarah gives an excellent example above.
What was wrong with Sarah’s comment? I appreciated her honesty.
When we’re talking about how fat people should be treated, does it matter if fat = unhealthy? Health is not a moral issue. Neither is fat.
Let’s play the game “Hypothetical Situation”.
For this round, let’s say one day that $DEITY shows up and proclaims “Hear ye, hear ye: I AM THE CREATOR, and I SAY FAT IS UNHEALTHY.” Okay. So in that hypothetical situation, we have it from $DEITY (whatever you call him/her/it) that fat is unhealthy. If you don’t believe in them, well… let’s pretend that you do, just for our game, k?
Well… what else is unhealthy? Sickle cell, Tay-sachs, Krohn’s disease, cancer… to name a few.
So if you were walking down the street with a beloved friend who happened to be going through chemo, and let’s say it’s a windy day and it blows the scarf clean off her head. Someone catches a glimpse of the sun reflecting off her scalp (because chemo does that), and they point, laugh and shout, “OMG CHROME DOME!” or something equally stupid.
Are you going to just think, “well, she shouldn’t have had cancer - everyone knows cancer is unhealthy.”
Granted, this is kinda moot when we stop playing our Hypothetical Situation game and go back to the “fat does not equal unhealthy” bit. But the point of this exercise was not “is fat unhealthy?”, it was “if fat were unhealthy, is that still a valid excuse to treat fat people poorly?” And the answer is dear god, no; what the hell is wrong with you?.
Thanks for bringing the humanity back, Sheana. It’s a big relief to admit we are not perfect–and that neither are other people, even fat pride icons.
As for me, I have not been a perfect leader or participant in a certain project. Not all of it is within my control, but it doesn’t mean I shouldn’t have done better. I have not been the perfect fat debater in many instances. Sometimes I feel too saturated in it all, and I have to take a break because I can’t keep up with it all. I won’t list all my fat activist imperfections here, but it feels good to say some of them.
And YES YES YES to bringing in the arguments about Sickle Cell and Tay-Sachs. I try to get that across to students when I talk about race and ethnicity and social construction…it’s a good analogy to make.
Hypersurfaces, I have several points for you.
Firstly, if you have a bunch of people talking about science, you will always get some people who say stuff that is misleading or untrue, whether from ignorance or making a mistake. That’s the case in any groups, whether that be in fat acceptance or other groups.
Secondly, if it’s science that worries you, then go and have a proper look at the science. Don’t assume that the media report it accurately or give a fair and balanced picture. For example, you could go research the question “What types of cancer do fat people have a lower chance of getting?”, since the media seem more than willing to trumpet the other side of the coin.
There is a LOT of science that provides a whole lot of evidence in support of fat acceptance. In fact, I (myself a scientist) came to fat acceptance mostly FROM LOOKING AT THE SCIENCE. It was deeply shocking to me to learn that what the media propagate bore little resemblance to the actual data.
Thirdly, you don’t have to agree with Sandy to read her blog. If you’re to get an accurate view of a subject, you need to hear both sides of the argument and see the evidence so you can make up your own mind. Sandy’s blog is one of the very few places where you can hear another side to the argument.
How can a person claim to be concerned about the science of fat without looking at the evidence nor listening to people summarizing contrary viewpoints?
SharonC-
I don’t believe it was fair of you to say that I don’t read the evidence or listen to people summarizing contrary viewpoints. I just said that I don’t read Szwarc’s blog because I have a moral problem with other things she has written.
I do work at a university, so I am thankful to have access to a lot of papers that the average person wouldn’t have access to at home. When I do hear a paper referenced somewhere, I do tend to look it up and make my own conclusions. I read this excellent scientific article recently, and I’ll have to look it back up on Monday, comparing the work and science of fat positivity versus fat negativity, and pretty much ruled in favor of fat positivity.
Anyway, in summary, it is hurtful for you to make hypothetical questions aimed at telling me I am uninformed. This is the kind of negativity that would tend to shoo me away from the movement.
[…] Fat activists are not perfect - We’re all human, and sometimes we mess up. Sometimes we have bad body days. Sometimes we […]
I’d like to say I’m not new to being fat but am new to fat acceptance and don’t mind reading blog from fat activists that may be harsh. We all get pissed off - isn’t that why we turn to FA in the first place.
a newbee
I also find myself letting peoples fatphobia slide when mentioned in conversation, esp. at parties.
Maybe thats something I’ll make a plan to work on.